You covered a lot of ground, this should be helpful for those considering the manual trades. I did find myself nodding in agreement about the physical demands. I am a farmer and did not start until I was 37 (60 now). I am frequently approached my men and women who want to start farming when they "retire". I'm blunt in telling them they are underestimating both the physical demands and lacking the mental conditioning required to labor for long hours. They are seldom amused or take my advice.
Gosh, I didn’t even mention physical conditions beyond space and proximity to the ground. Temperature! Humidity! The sweat! And your point about the moral fortitude required to endure long hours laboring, often in less-than-comfortable conditions, is a good one. I wish I’d remembered it.
Do you feel that 37 was “too late” a start? (Obviously you still do it, so perhaps not, but maybe you wish you’d started sooner?)
37? I guess, and I'm sure you agree, it depends on the person. It would have been nice to have started earlier. But life comes at each of us in our own time. This opportunity came at a good time. But again most do not think about the physicality of physical work (odd as that sentence seems). I wrote a summary of what we have done over the years. (https://www.wingedelmfarm.com/blog/2021/05/16/twenty-one-years-by-the-numbers/)
Holy smokes 😳 all the labor involved in setting up your perimeter: THAT got me. 3ft deep post holes 248 times? I can feel my hands throbbing just thinking about it.
Thanks for the kind words and for subscribing, Brian. It means a lot. Glad to meet you here.
Wow -Nate, you would be a favourite at homeschool conferences! You provide a lot of very practical, important questions to consider. I will be keeping these handy for teens looking to head into the trades direction.
I look forward to seeing/hearing you being interview by Mike as a Mike Rowe Works success story! :D The fact that you also have a penchant for writing will make a good combination.
This is very good, Nate. Machining was my trade (retired) and I did not have the patience for it. Instead the trade developed my patience. It’s one of those trades for which you can’t advance if you’re not pretty sharp, and good with numbers. So most good machinists are also fussy people, and patience is frequently not their finest asset. Yet in order to succeed you must overcome it. The people who make money in my trade, possibly every trade, have a good balance of ability to patience at some point.
The ability to shrug off the stigma of being a “laborer” is important. I know a man who taught at the local vocational technical school. It was the habit of the school district to take all of the fails, blockheads and dumbasses and sign them up for the vo-tech and load them on the bus. Not only is that revealing of the prevailing opinion of academics, it does not work out for the kids. Part of their chances to come around with adequate opportunity in the classroom is lost. There really shouldn’t be any of that lost to competent trades trainees, either.
People I know think I am very hard on the record of public education. I’ve meant to be.
Thanks very much, Ken. I’m glad that what I said matches up with, or is at least resonant with, your time in the trades. You make a great point about the virtue/vice of a person and how they relate to their work.
I think the image of blue collar work is steadily changing. Maybe. At least, there’s more public discussion about blue collar work now than I remember there being 20 years ago. That happens to coincide with Mike Rowe’s show Dirty Jobs. He mentions in a recent interview how “shop class” used to be “vo-tech”, but before it was “vo-tech” it was called the “vocational arts” and that part of our issue is that we’ve lost the art in the work. I think he’s on to something.
Enjoyed this. Your “questions to ask yourself about your temperament (and answer honestly)” are transferable and pertinent to pretty much any career, I think. I (a) hate doing anything customer-facing and (b) love being left alone with no interruptions to just get on with whatever needs doing in my own time. Those two needs - plus, ya know, the need to eat - have pretty much shaped every career choice I’ve ever made.
Yeah, I think most of what I’ve said here could be said about other lines of work, actually. “Know thyself,” etc. Temperament, personality, disposition: these aren’t unimportant matters as it pertains to job satisfaction!
I haven’t listened to his podcast on a regular basis, but he’s been doing the rounds the last 6 months or so on other podcasts and YouTube channels and I’ve been listening to a lot of those interviews. I’ve heard him say that number a few times, but my own research shows a total of 6 million available jobs, 3 million of them in the skilled trades.
Either way, that’s a ton of jobs and with 10 million people out of work, you’d think we’d be able to fill them relatively easily! But here we are. Most people don’t know where to start (hence this piece) or that the opportunities are there at all.
A quick story on this point - when my son (also Nate) graduated from H.S. he decided to go to a 2 year tech school for Machine Tool Technology. Thankfully South Carolina has many tech schools that focus on the trades. Anyway, in Nate's first semester, one of the local companies came to interview several students for apprentice machining jobs while they were going to school. The company paid their tuition for an obligation of 2 years beyond school. So, while he was going to school for machining, his tuition was paid, he learned OJT, and actually made upwards of $45k US ( a lot of overtime) his second year at age 19.
Bottom line, the company was having a hard time finding people willing to work (and this was back in 2011 so it has just gotten worse since that time) and those who were willing reaped the benefits. After his 2 year post-graduation obligation was up, he joined the Navy Seabees and trained as an Engineering Technician (civil) so now he has that skill also.
Since he left the Navy, he went back to machining and makes a lot of money - certainly more than I did at his age. He has also parlayed his love for fishing into a kayak fishing tour side hustle on the Gulf Coast.
Now, I even see billboards advertising machining jobs with training for upwards of $24/hr. My point is that there are lots of opportunities out there for those who are willing to work.
You covered a lot of ground, this should be helpful for those considering the manual trades. I did find myself nodding in agreement about the physical demands. I am a farmer and did not start until I was 37 (60 now). I am frequently approached my men and women who want to start farming when they "retire". I'm blunt in telling them they are underestimating both the physical demands and lacking the mental conditioning required to labor for long hours. They are seldom amused or take my advice.
Gosh, I didn’t even mention physical conditions beyond space and proximity to the ground. Temperature! Humidity! The sweat! And your point about the moral fortitude required to endure long hours laboring, often in less-than-comfortable conditions, is a good one. I wish I’d remembered it.
Do you feel that 37 was “too late” a start? (Obviously you still do it, so perhaps not, but maybe you wish you’d started sooner?)
37? I guess, and I'm sure you agree, it depends on the person. It would have been nice to have started earlier. But life comes at each of us in our own time. This opportunity came at a good time. But again most do not think about the physicality of physical work (odd as that sentence seems). I wrote a summary of what we have done over the years. (https://www.wingedelmfarm.com/blog/2021/05/16/twenty-one-years-by-the-numbers/)
I'm tired just looking at those numbers.
And, yes, we still farm.
Cheers,
Brian
PS Glad I found your substack, good writing.
Holy smokes 😳 all the labor involved in setting up your perimeter: THAT got me. 3ft deep post holes 248 times? I can feel my hands throbbing just thinking about it.
Thanks for the kind words and for subscribing, Brian. It means a lot. Glad to meet you here.
Wow -Nate, you would be a favourite at homeschool conferences! You provide a lot of very practical, important questions to consider. I will be keeping these handy for teens looking to head into the trades direction.
If you ever know of a homeschool conference that needs a blue collar representative 👀 (and I’m much cheaper than Mike Rowe!)
I’m glad you found it helpful. I hope your teens find it helpful too!
Thanks so much! I am looking to re-invent myself and take to the trades. Using the Mike Rowe link provided, i submitted an app tonight.
This is SUCH a cool comment to read. Thanks so much for telling me. I hope it goes favorably for you!
I look forward to seeing/hearing you being interview by Mike as a Mike Rowe Works success story! :D The fact that you also have a penchant for writing will make a good combination.
This is very good, Nate. Machining was my trade (retired) and I did not have the patience for it. Instead the trade developed my patience. It’s one of those trades for which you can’t advance if you’re not pretty sharp, and good with numbers. So most good machinists are also fussy people, and patience is frequently not their finest asset. Yet in order to succeed you must overcome it. The people who make money in my trade, possibly every trade, have a good balance of ability to patience at some point.
The ability to shrug off the stigma of being a “laborer” is important. I know a man who taught at the local vocational technical school. It was the habit of the school district to take all of the fails, blockheads and dumbasses and sign them up for the vo-tech and load them on the bus. Not only is that revealing of the prevailing opinion of academics, it does not work out for the kids. Part of their chances to come around with adequate opportunity in the classroom is lost. There really shouldn’t be any of that lost to competent trades trainees, either.
People I know think I am very hard on the record of public education. I’ve meant to be.
Thanks very much, Ken. I’m glad that what I said matches up with, or is at least resonant with, your time in the trades. You make a great point about the virtue/vice of a person and how they relate to their work.
I think the image of blue collar work is steadily changing. Maybe. At least, there’s more public discussion about blue collar work now than I remember there being 20 years ago. That happens to coincide with Mike Rowe’s show Dirty Jobs. He mentions in a recent interview how “shop class” used to be “vo-tech”, but before it was “vo-tech” it was called the “vocational arts” and that part of our issue is that we’ve lost the art in the work. I think he’s on to something.
Zen and the Art of Plumbing. A rare combination of nuts and bolts practical working on a philosophical blue tarp.
An incredibly kind comparison that will put gas in my tank for weeks or even months to come. Thank you, Adam!
Enjoyed this. Your “questions to ask yourself about your temperament (and answer honestly)” are transferable and pertinent to pretty much any career, I think. I (a) hate doing anything customer-facing and (b) love being left alone with no interruptions to just get on with whatever needs doing in my own time. Those two needs - plus, ya know, the need to eat - have pretty much shaped every career choice I’ve ever made.
Yeah, I think most of what I’ve said here could be said about other lines of work, actually. “Know thyself,” etc. Temperament, personality, disposition: these aren’t unimportant matters as it pertains to job satisfaction!
Feel you on the need to eat too. Big motivator.
The biggest 😐
Great post, Nathaniel. I listen to Mike Roses podcast every week. He says there are at least 7-9 million open trade jobs now.
I haven’t listened to his podcast on a regular basis, but he’s been doing the rounds the last 6 months or so on other podcasts and YouTube channels and I’ve been listening to a lot of those interviews. I’ve heard him say that number a few times, but my own research shows a total of 6 million available jobs, 3 million of them in the skilled trades.
Either way, that’s a ton of jobs and with 10 million people out of work, you’d think we’d be able to fill them relatively easily! But here we are. Most people don’t know where to start (hence this piece) or that the opportunities are there at all.
A quick story on this point - when my son (also Nate) graduated from H.S. he decided to go to a 2 year tech school for Machine Tool Technology. Thankfully South Carolina has many tech schools that focus on the trades. Anyway, in Nate's first semester, one of the local companies came to interview several students for apprentice machining jobs while they were going to school. The company paid their tuition for an obligation of 2 years beyond school. So, while he was going to school for machining, his tuition was paid, he learned OJT, and actually made upwards of $45k US ( a lot of overtime) his second year at age 19.
Bottom line, the company was having a hard time finding people willing to work (and this was back in 2011 so it has just gotten worse since that time) and those who were willing reaped the benefits. After his 2 year post-graduation obligation was up, he joined the Navy Seabees and trained as an Engineering Technician (civil) so now he has that skill also.
Since he left the Navy, he went back to machining and makes a lot of money - certainly more than I did at his age. He has also parlayed his love for fishing into a kayak fishing tour side hustle on the Gulf Coast.
Now, I even see billboards advertising machining jobs with training for upwards of $24/hr. My point is that there are lots of opportunities out there for those who are willing to work.
This is fantastic. In some form (on here; in a designed PDF), this should be in every high school career guidance center in the country. I'm serious.
Incredibly kind, Ben. If there were some union of guidance counselors and they’d take it, I’d happily give it to them!
This is a great post!! It should be required reading for kids in Scouts, youth groups, career classes in junior high, etc...!!!
Thank you, Elle! I wish I’d had a guide to read when I first started thinking about this work.